Syria

[bistallion]

I visited Syria some weeks ago. A country full of friendly people but also a country controlled by a kind of secret police. You get in hard trouble if you critisize the president. Homosexuality is illegal. At the other side it is very normal that men express their feelings for other men also in the open. If you would know nothing about the country before, being naive enough, you could believe you are in a country full of gay men. I was fascinated of the emotional "gayness" of men.
In reality it is very difficult for gay men to live their lifes there. There are some places like hammans where you can have some sex but always with a certain risk. As an effect of long years of oppression and control many syrians are very fearful, perhaps even paranoid. Cruising in the internet I found many proofs of anxious syrian gays but also a few of self-confidence and courage.
Is here anybody who visited the country as a tourist or syrians living in- or outside the country? I would like to exchange some thoughts.
More important: Anybody has information how risky it is for syrians to receive emails in that I give hints about gay places or gay internet links? I met many boys/men there (straight and bi/gay) and want to keep in contact with some.
If someone has questions about my experiences just ask me.

[Murat]

my partner and I wanted to visit syria. He is from Iraq. I am Turkish. We decided against it because when his striaght brother wernt he was questioned at some length by immigration and although ordinary syrians were friendly, those in authority gave him a tough time. he was travelling on a UK passport. Last summer I was catching a flight frm Amkara to London. The plane was doimg a stop over from Damascus. When I boarded the plane there weas an element of unfriendliness from the Syrians on the plane. Quite unlike anything experienced from arabs in other countries. I don't know why other than relations between Turkey and Syria are not good. It has made me thinktwice about going,patricu;larly as a gay man. Have I got it wrong?

[anas2009]

Hi guys

I'm Syrian. ..

so if you have any question I'm ready..

[Murat]

anas first question. If my partner and I decide to visit Syria, because it is a beautiful country, we would not be looking for sex but would like to make contact with gay syrians where would we go? or is it not advisable for foreigners. It is friends we seek not sex partners.

[bistallion]

Hi Murat,
I thank you for your posting and mail.
I try to answer your questions, although I am not always 100% sure If I am right in each case.
1) If I call the syrians friendly, then I speak about the normal people, not about the authorities. I am sure the syrian authorities CAN be very tough!!! But as a european tourist you normally have nothing to fear from them. Syria needs the money of tourists. So Syrians told me that the authorities at the border normally make no problems to tourists, for example do not control books and papers. That was exactly how they did treat me. They controled my passport but did not look into my luggage. It was a rather quick and friendly procedure. Of course I can not generalize from my case to all tourists. And you never have to forget: I am an european / German tourist. I do not know how they would treat an american, egyptian or turkish person! I know that I am privileged in many parts of the world as an european and especially in the arab world as a german.

2) I talked with palestinian and iraqui fugitives living in Syria. Both told me that Syria had been rather open to fugitives in the past and also in the last years with regard to iraquis. Both groups spoke respectful of a rather poor country that nevertheless tried to help the fugitives from the neighbour countries. In that way Syria seems to have a much better reputation then other arab countries.
I read in western articles that this is true but that the mood of the syrian people got more and more cold if not angry towards the iraqi fugitives in the last time. The reason is simple: As effect of a rather big amount of iraqui fugitives living now in Syria, the prices of flats and food increased extremely so that the normal syrian citizen felt more and more as a victim of the fugitive policy of the syrian government.
So the immigration policy towards the iraquis became stricter in the last time. I think nowadays it is not easy or even not possible for iraquis to immigrate to syria. I think Syria (and also western countries) argue that the situation in iraq now is "safe" enough -which is certainly not true.
That will be the reason that even the brother of your friend (with UK passport) had been controlled very strictly. The authorities thought perhaps: May be that he wants to visit part of his family in syria and stay there (for example to support them).

3) The relationship between Syria and Turkey was not the best in the last years. If I remember properly Syria felt threatened by turkish dam projects in the south of the country at river euphrates. Syrians say these dams hold back water that Syria needs urgently. Also Turkey and Israel (that is seen by Syria as the big ennemy) practise a military collaboration. And this year (am I right?) Turkey attacked syrian territory to fight militant kurds. So especially the last may be the reason that you was treated not too friendly on your flight to London.

4) If you want to make contact with gay syrians you have to go to the few cruising places, even if you are not looking for sex. There are no or only very few cafes or bars to get in contact. I experienced that gay syrians are happy to meet gays of other countries, so if you try you will be sucessful.
Look, here is a site of a brave syrian who listed the places to go:
http://mazaj75.blogspot.com
In the internet you find some reports and blogs that are also interesting. For example
www.michaeltotten.com
And then there is a rather famous book, a travel report of an gay english writer:
Robert Tewdwr Moss: Cleoptra's wedding present

[bistallion]

Hi Anas2009,

my first simple question: can you tell me if you live in- or outside of Syria?

[Portugues]

Is here anybody who visited the country as a tourist or syrians living in- or outside the country? I would like to exchange some thoughts.
If someone has questions about my experiences just ask me.


Hi there, I visited Syria years ago and really would love to know more about your experiences. Are u a frequent traveller to the arab countries? I am looking for a traveller partner to these countries..

Hug
Miguel

[bistallion]

Hi Portugues,

I travelled many times to Turkey (which is no arab but a muslim country which offers like arab countries very masculin men), one time to Tunesia, one time to Morocco (but only for a half-day trip from Spain) and last october the first time to Syria. My few experiences in maghreb countries did disappoint me so that I always preferred Turkey. Syria was a new experience. I am still not over to digest my impressions and encounters. I feel still insecure how to interpret some of my experiences, so I am interested to listen to the experiences of other travellers. I suggest we use the possibilities of private messaging.

I wish you a wonderful year 2009!

Stefan

[anas2009]

Hi guys

First, I would like from you to know that Syrian ppl not coz i'm syrian but they are verry kind and the country not that much bad like what you say.. but there is a lot of places are civilized.

About Murat questions
1- http://mazaj75.blogspot.com is agood website to know about syria gay life.
2- you can contact with gays like any other ppl even the gays sex is taboo and the ppl are always ignored by the people in Syria.

about bistalion reply.
1- the syrian-turkish relation is very very very good and also Syria is welcome any tourist not only for money but also to know that syria not that much bad.
2- I'm living in Syria (Damascus).

about Portugues investigate:

you are welcome to Syria just to know that what you read and know in books and news are all fake

for all:
if you would like to visit Syria just contact me to give you some advices for places and areas to visit (not for Sex)

and if you would like to have a mate just try to find 1 in this chat website: www.babel.com

[Murat]

Many thanks for the information. I will discuss it with my partner and seek to persuade him to spend some time touring Syria. I wil send you a PM if I succeeed. If you ever visit London please get in touch and we will show you around London.

[bistallion]

Dear Anas2009,

Syrian people must not always fear that tourists could say something bad about syrians! Like me many tourists made the experience that syrian people are very friendly and hospitable! You can read many reports of tourists in internet, for example on the site of lonely planet. They only talk good about syrian people. You must not think that all western people think like George W. Bush.
When I talked about turkish-syrian relations I meant of course ONLY the relations of the both governments. I did not talk about the relations between people. Of course syrians welcome all peaceful people in their country, I know. They welcome europeans, they welcome turkish people and even americans.
I always make a big difference between the people of a country, government of a country and traditions of country. And that I do also with regard to Syria. For example I could critisize the government and at the same time love the people. With traditions its often so that I like SOME traditions and I dislike SOME others.
So I agree with you in many points. But why can you say that all books and articles about Syria are fakes? You can read (books, papers) and hear (radio) and see (television) in the western world many good and correct reports about Syria! The western world is not totally dominated by Bush!
Who tells you that the whole world only critisizes Syria? Your government tells you????

[anas2009]

Thanks for reply.
I know that not all fake but we have to know that must of reports are made on pure people or about the bad things in Syria ... but you have to know that always the good things not included in the news...
Also, about syrian-turk politecs are very special and v.good.
finally, you are welcome at any time to show you what i say...
TC

[bistallion]

anas2009, I thank you very much for your friendly offer. If I come next time to Syria perhaps we can meet and talk. I am always open for different views. But now a question: I met a gay man in Aleppo, I did also accompany him to a gayfriendly hamman. He was very open to me, but - of course - more careful with regard to syrians. He heard already about the book "Cleopatras wedding present" and was of course interested to read it. Its about a gay english guy travelling through syria. I read it and its nice but there are books like "Gay travels in the the muslim world" that will be much more interesting and supporting to gay muslims. Of course (?) I do not dare to send him this book to syria. He told me NOT to send books like this to his adress. OK. But I also do not dare to speak open about these books in my emails. I am always very careful. I also do not dare to send him a list with gay cruising places in syria.
anas2009, what do you think? Am I too anxious? Of course I do not speak about politics in my emails. But would it be without risk for my gay syrian friend if I speak about gay matters in my emails to him???? How do you see the situation?

[bistallion]

Still a special question: What countries can syrians enter without visa? Certainly lebanon, certainly jordan, but also turkey?

[Mazaj]

Dear bistallion

I need to reply to your first message I saw on this thread. & I must say you are very correct.
The internet for Gay Arab users in general have become like an escape from reality, but also a place to play games.. Unfortunately, most Gay Arabs play games online. Also, you are very true about people being paranoid, but there are so many stories to tell about how gay people try to get advantage of someone else's fear of family or community reaction if they ever find out about his sexuality, so to some extent I give those "paranoid" people some excuses for being so.
Anyway, it's like any other gay community full of drama, bad men, & good men. And being a very well-experienced guy & well travelled as well, I can say the only difference here in Syria is that Gay people still live in deep fear of being exposed. Other than that we are all men, & men are men everywhere, most of them do not even know what they want.
As for the "gay-like affection" between men here, well I guess it's a nice thing to be able to hold hands without being labled as a gay man, heterosexual men in the Middle East hold hands, hug, & kiss ON THE CHEEKS all the time.
Anyway, I'm glad that someone visited the country & got such a nice opinion overall about gay life here.
As for your questions to anas2009, NO, you CANNOT send any gay books especially in regards to any religion to anyone. Even though Syria has, to a certain extent, one of the best literary censorship departments (only political books of anti-regime type are banned) but still it's too risky to send this kind of books via mail to anyone.

As for countries Syrians enter without a visa, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, and I think Libya too. A Turkish tourist visa can be obtained in a day. It's just a routine thing, so you can count Turkey as well.

As for Murat questions:
Most of them were answered perfectly by the great bistallion, (I can't hide my big admiration for this man lol)
Anyway, I need to add one thing about the experiences you mentioned with Syrian passengers, Syrians are in general very enthusiastic about Arab political issues; "Arabism" is something most Syrians have. Maybe by the time of that experience there were some disturbing news about a Turkish or a British involvement in some Arab country affairs, & that's what made you feel uncomfortable around them at that particular moment. Not defending Syrians just because I'm Syrian, but they happen to be the friendliest of all Arabs, but also the most emotional ones too.
You don't have to fear anything dear, Iraqis & Iraq have been loved by Syrians for decades, even when they were under Saddam's regime, Syrians loved Iraq & Iraqis. As for you as a Turkish, you will just be adored here, Trust me.
I don't recommend going to online dating sites to get contacts with gay men, but it's the best way for you to do if you want to have talks with nice gay men. Just be clear about what you want, & also be firm.

As for the Turkish-Syrian relationships, they have flourished in the past 4 years, & gone from the worst to the best in decades, so Anas is right about that. We hope for more good relations with other countries.

Thank you all for your posts here. I really enjoyed reading them.

One little note for you dear Anas, don't be so defensive. Most of us Arabs feel misjudged & get so defensive in their reactions. Stay calm, & state the facts. It's a small world & the truth will finally come out. Hopefully we all, Gay Arabs, can come out someday too.

Wish you all the best.

[bistallion]

Hi Mazaj, welcome in our community!
I am happy to "meet" you again! You can not know but I did chat with you a few months ago using our yahoo messengers (my yahoo nickname: bluepirat2006). It was just before I traveled to Syria for the first time. I had still some questions before I decided to travel and you were so friendly to answer.
I had many nice encounters in your country - with straight and with gay people. Especially with one gay guy I am still in email-contact. He is relatively open compared to most of gay syrians. That means, he is open to some close friends and colleagues and also to his openminded boss. I would like to give him a kind of support. I think he really would enjoy to read reports of other gay muslims or even a list of cruising places. But I am careful, perhaps too careful. For example I do avoid to use the word "gay" in my emails. I would like to tell him links like your blog or like this community I am just posting to. But till now I do not dare. So what do you think? Am I too anxious???? After all, you and some other syrian posters do NOT fear to participate in this community.
What do you think?
Warm greetings from
Stefan

[Mazaj]

Yes I do remember now Stefan... Thank you again.
AND YES, you are too anxious!!!
It's OK to email anything, just the postal service is not a safe way.
Take care
Warm greetings to you too.

[bistallion]

Mazaj, thank your for your advice!
Greetings from Germany

[hgtelad]

Hi guys, I visited Syria in 2007 and found the people to be extremely friendly and very welcoming to myself (British) and my female friend (Australian) who was with me in Damascus & Krak. Whilst then travelling alone in Aleppo & Damascus, I was approached by gay Syrian guys who were keen to talk to me a establish through conversation whether I too was gay. Whilst no sex took place, the guys were genuinely friendly & whilst the authorities may be tough, I would thoroughly recommend visiting Syria to anyone who is interested in seeing for themselves a fantastic & interesting country with the friendliest everyday people - as anas2009 says - don't believe everything you read about Syria.

[bistallion]

For guys interesting in Syria I can now give a second advice for a book. I did already recommend "Robert Tewdwr Moss: Cleopatra's wedding present" in a former posting.
I am now reading the book of an american anthropologist who travelled to Aleppo in 2004 as a prof who gives lectures at Aleppo university but also as an anthropologist who does "field research". That means he describes in his book encounters and many conversations with all kind of young men (students, salesmen in the souk etc.). The conversations go about daily life especially in the souk, studys, religion, relationships and sex. These encounters give you a very good impression how syrian young men think and behave. More than a normal travel guide the book gives you informations how it "feels" to spend some time in Syria as a foreigner. Although it is not an explicit book about gay life you get a good impression about the emotions between arab men, the flirts between men and the fascinating "gay" atmosphere in an arabic country. By they way: The prof himself is obviously gay himself. But do not expect a book with sexadventures! Nevertheless its an entertaining book with an underlying erotic tone. Here the title:
John Borneman: Syrian episodes - Sons, Fathers and an Anthropologist in Aleppo

[mjastivski]

I've went to Syria once, it's a beautiful country indeed.. But I had a friend that lived there and told me how LGBT people are usually oppressed there.. And when I went there, the closest thing I saw that relates to gay was a very effeminate guy in Lattakia in the north, and that was pretty much it.
I heard of a bar where gay guys usually throw private parties called the Cave, but I've never been there and I've never really investigated about it since university and my boyfriend keep me too busy to think about travelling anywhere now.


Cheerz,

MJ