Egypt & hassle

[saltyshakes]

I've travelled many times to Egypt and also to Tunisia & Morocco. I'm sad to say, I have found that Egypt has gone down hill in the ten years I have visited. The hassle & deviousness of the north has spread down to the south - eg Aswan where the locals were very friendly & hospitable in the past so am not keen to visit again.

Visiting Morocco more recently was a refreshing change - even the souks there actually sell locally made things that you might want to buy, unlike the rubbish [alabaster, papyrus etc nowadays almost entirely manufactured in China] they have unwisely decided to stick with in Egypt. I tried in vain to get some arabic calligraphy done in Egypt whereas, on my first night in Morocco, found a student offering good, reasonably priced calligraphy, just off Dja el Fnaa in Marrakesh.

Of course, wherever one travels [including London!] there will be dishonesty & hassle but, in Egypt, it has become so relentless & in your face. The v few relatively honest people I have met more recently, still have an angle. The dishonesty ranges from the extreme of people wishing to steal or otherwise badger money from you [& if you give something, they won't be happy but will always ask for more] through to staff in hotels that will give you the wrong information in order to make a little more money out of you. This applies as much to everyday transactions as it does to hustlers [of which there are more & more]. Also some people may, without warning, become threatening or violent if you are unwilling play along with it. Be warned!

In any poor country, of course people will be desperate to make money & most foreigners are expected to be wealthy however, elsewhere people seem to realise that the short term grasping approach is self defeating, not least because people don't come back or, if they do, they stay in the newly built hotels that allow them to avoid contact with local people. Instead they sell things that people might actually want to buy & realise that, if they treat visitors well, they will be tipped well.

I am particularly sad that the people of Aswan & Upper Egypt have largely lost the dignity & warmth they had before & succumbed to the dash for cash.

[arabactive]

tell please about your expriances with arab men in Tunis , Morocoo, Eygpet

[Brett.Bryan]

I don't feel that you can condemn all Egyptians for the greed of some. Yes there are a lot of tourist items that are made in China. However, there are still many craftsmen and artists turning out wonderful pieces. I had the good fortune to meet a brass man who creates wonderful pieces of brass and copper. He is a third generation artist. He is quite proud of the work that his father and uncle did on creating the lamps in the Farouk Mosque in Maadi. He told me that when he needs inspiration, he goes there to see what they created. He feels that he is not nearly as talented as they were. I am most impressed with both his pharaonic-inspired pieces as well as his Islamic designed pieces. I have had him create trays that are inset into a mashrabeya encased coffee table, sofa table, and several end/occasional tables. I even had him do four traditional tea house tables for me.

[saltyshakes]

What I was most disappointed about on my last visit was that, previously, at least in the South, I did meet some decent, friendly people but the last time I did not. Sure, I agree that in any country there is a mixture of people, some good, some bad, but I found it sooooo frustrating in Egypt because I found that even some of those I had taken to be more honest, turned out not to be.

I'll give you an [non-sexual] example - I had got to know someone previously [Spring 2005] who worked in a clothes shop - at the end of my stay. We chatted frankly & I took him to be a decent sort [much more as I had remembered Egyptians from some years before]. When I returned to Luxor that November, I bumped into his brother first whose first question was about what presents I had brought. This put me off even trying to meet up with my friend but I decided to anyway & was shocked to see his circumstances had changed & he was now earning a living cleaning shoes.

I was leaving for Aswan the next day but upon my return [2wks later], I decided to give him some cash - no strings attached - to help him out. I also happened to mention that I was looking for a CD of currently popular music & he said he could get hold of one for me. Sure enough, the next day, he'd got the CD but charged me 2-3 times the going rate for a locally produced CD. I was just disappointed with the pettiness of it, that he couldn't resist grasping for that bit extra. And he was the most honest of those I met!

Anyhow, I'm returning to Luxor later this year to take some Arabic Classes so I'll see how things compare with 3yrs ago.

[SCARAMOUCH]

CDs in Egypt should be no more than 10E...I am familiar with the hassle of presents. A friend in Luxor asked that I bring him a Bob Marley T-shirt. When I call him the first thing he asks me about is the shirt. Presents used to be modest like toys. Now they want telephones and MP3s. It gets ridiculous. I do not take presents now. Apart from anything else I have too many friends. I have decided the next time I go I look after myself. A young Egyptian said to me, "You have no friends in Egypt. They just want your money." I sat with some friends in the Souk where a french woan wanted an Amr Diab DC. They said it would cost 70E. I didn't even pay anywhere near that amount when I first bought CDs. 20E was tops until now when I know the seller better.

[saltyshakes]

Hahaha - you're quite right. Someone I met [I wouldn't really class him as a 'friend'] three yrs back on Elephantine Island near Aswan asked me to bring some gifts when I returned later that year... specifically a DVD player & 4 sets of Arsenal & Chelsea shirts. Even before I discovered just how ridiculously expensive the latter were, I thought he was being a little greedy!

I had asked him to find me some accommodation on the island but did have doubts about his reliability so thought I'd wait & see - if he came through with the accommodation, I'd give him a decent tip.

Needless to say, he didn't so I ended up giving him nothing & gave him the cold shoulder during my visit.

[smeeinnit]

oooh am sorry to hear that. I suppose there is always a next time ;)

[SCARAMOUCH]

There is a little cheeky something the guys down the Souks of Luxor and Aswan when it comes to selling scarves to the ladies. They take the scarf and as they wrap it around their neck their other hand conveniently reaches down to their breast to cop a feel.... What a shame it is that they don't sell boxer shorts...

[Murat]

The reality is that getting as much as you can for whatever service you offer is in the blood of most Egyptians. Most earn very little so you can't blame them for that. But it does depend on where you come from My partner is from Iraq so of course speaks Arabic. When we were in Eqypt. if I went to buy something I could get a hard time. The classic was at a cash machine in Aswan. I was getting nowhere with it because it was broke. There was a security guard standing next to it, not doing much. My partner spoke to him in arabic and told him he was born in Iraq. The security guard escorted us to the next bank, handed us over to another guard who personally showed us how to use the machine. When we were leaving the first security guard came running after us, shook the hand of my partner and told him in how much he had loved saddan hussein!!. We kept quiet at that point! When we were at Abbu Simnel my partner stood close to the wall for me to take a photo the guard waived him away.He said sorry in Arabic, the guard asked him where he was from. He said Iraq, not only was he allowed to stnd by the wall the guard put his hand on his shoulder and I photographed the pair of them. At Luxor temple a guard wanted money to to use my camera to take a photgraph of me. So i said to my partner to do the same. He gave his camera o the guard. There was a brief discussion in Arabic, not only was he not asked for money he offered to make him some tea when he came off duty half hour later! My partner got a free taxi ride, free water, extra spices at a spice shop and on the boat what was the best thing to eat each night. . And, by the way, if you come from an Arabic speaking country it is about 50p admission to say, the mummy room at Cairo Museum £10 (I think) if you don't. By the end of our trip I had spent £45 on admission fees, he had spent £2!!! The reason is simple, most tourists are rich by their standards, ordinary arabs, are not. There is also a kind of collective guilt amongst Arabs for what has happened to Iraq. Despite all the grief you have to love Eygpt and the Eygptians Whats the point of getting fed up about it, its what makes the holiday Moral of this tale, if you want a cheap holiday in Eygpt go there with an Arab!!!

PS I forgotten the mention the free private guided tour of one of the tombs in the Valley of the kings.

[malexax]

I have lived in Egypt for a while and i have to say I do not recognise what is being described by some posts. The people here are very generous and warm, and they are not all after money. Okay, this is a poor country and when the average wage for most people is less than 20LE a day, you have to understand their needs. So what if you paid 20 or 30 or even 70LE for a CD. if you can afford to travel to Egypt then you can afford to be "ripped" off for a few pounds. If you want to be really cheated , then go to London and pay 70LE for a hotdog or ice cream in the West End. Now thats criminal.