Egypt travel

[pwmlkg4fun]

I'm going to be in Cairo, and cruising the Nile in October. Any suggestions for meeting some hot hairy Egyptian top men?

[hotsucker]

Have no worry, they'll come to you. Lots of cruising on the streets, and markets. Also a few hot hammams, though some of them have been closed.

At the Pyramid site, I got involved with some 'tourist police" guys, very cute in the white uniform. Things take place in the area North of the Great Pyramid, on the way to the Sphinx, where there is a maze of old tombs. The area is not crowded and a little bit cruisy. The tourist police are not shy and always eager to make a few tips. I was invited by one of them to climb on his camel (in front of him, naturally...) before we went on further explorations in a more secluded area....
In Asouan, some cruising on the main street and market.

[kosta]

can you pelase tell me where to find any cruisy hammams in Cairo (address) and what would be the best days and times to go also can you adv ise where i should look to rent studio furnished apartment for one month ...THANKS will be visiting soon from athens greece

[hotsucker]

Cannot remember the name of the Hammam, but I know there was one in the Midan Ramses area, on Clot Bey Rd, I think. And another one in Khan el Kalili, on An-Nahaseen, close to the Qalaun mausoleum.
For apts, I cannot give you any advice, sorry. I stayed in cheap hotels.

[kosta]

thanks for the info....do you know if they are still operating as i heard that a lot were closed...and what hotels did yu stay as in inexpensive and can i take guests to my room....thanks kosta

[hotsucker]

Cannot tell you if there are still operating. This was 2 years ago. But yes, some have closed down.

For the hotel, cannot remember the name of mine, but it was in the Talaat Harb area, in a litlle alleyway off Talaat Harb Street, (between Midan Tahrir and Midan Talaat Harb). At the end of the allew, you enter a rather shabby looking hall, with an elevator. The hotel is on floor 4 or 5, and quite nice, completely repainted, et redecorated, but still fairly cheap for such a central location. Hope you can find it with these indications.
The staff is nice (I even sucked one). But usually not possible to get guests to your room, except if noone's in the office when you get in... Avoid at all cost the room close to the office and elevator etc, very noisy. Prefer the rooms at the end of the hallway.

[kosta]

thanks...will try to find hammam and hotel...but was there last march...and was unable to find hammams open...thanks again...thought you might have had more updates information....will keep on checking.....

[ButtyBoy]

can you pelase tell me where to find any cruisy hammams in Cairo (address) and what would be the best days and times to go also can you adv ise where i should look to rent studio furnished apartment for one month ...THANKS will be visiting soon from athens greece

I often use this site to find appartments: http://www.homelidays.com/

First select your language at the top-right of the page and then do a search for Egypt/Cairo. I just looked and only found one appartment in Cairo but perhaps it's one that's good for you :)

Have fun

[Indo_man]

if i go to cairo, who will i meet?

[him4]

hi iam egyptian and i know alote of places to meet gays ;)
1) AL TAHARIR qr front of KFC
2) RAMSIS qr near METRO station
3)MISR AL GEDIDA st near MERYLAND PARK ( AL GARDINDO)
4)marriott hotel there is cafe called ( tea garden)

[him4]

that places in cairo and there is alote of places out of cairo but i dont know it

[saltyshakes]

In AL TAHARIR square especially & most other places hustlers/prostitutes who consider themselves to be straight rather than gay tend to predominate.

[kosta]

thank you for your reply...then that is not the area i would like to be in...thank you..can you please suggest what would be a suitable area to rent an apartment for 6 weeks while in cairo...and if you can tell me where one can meet nice men to enjoy their company....do you know of any local Hammams that might be still open...and if so where they are located...sorry to bother you with all this but very difficult to find information on gay egypt....thank you again Kosta

[scanner]

Thanks him4 - I will check those out this week-end. Leaving for Cairo Thursday and Luxor on Monday.

[maturelondon]

in my experience the marriot hotel coffee shop outside is a good hint ... also the tourism police is very eager to make a tourist feel at home :)

[kosta]

may ask when you were last there..(cairo)...thinknig of going again to egypt for about one month renting a small apt in Cairo can you suggest where i should go to meet some nice egyptian men...was there about 4 years ago ad have been told things have changed since i was last there.....very discreet and all hammams have closed ...is this correct...??...thanks Kosta from Athens Greece

[maturelondon]

I was there in november, marriott a very cruisy place and for sure that if you speak slowly in english some tourist police men will agree in a later meet ... but i think they only want to be sucked and cum

[ryegras]

Hi boys,
I am thinking ot vistit Cairo after few mothns and can you prefer me some "gay-friendnly" hotel at good neigborhood, is there anu chances?
10x in advance!

[platinumm1]

i always wanted to go to egypt....hmmm.

[abinowas]

i am planing to go to cairo on July, i find this post very usefull, thanks

[abinowas]

Please if any one would like to meet me at cairo then send me an internal message

[lotsa]

If anyone is thinking of travelling to Sharm-el-Sheik in the south (on the Red Sea), you won't have problems finding guys. There is a string of hotels adjacent to the beach. There are some massage stalls where local guys do massages for all sexes. I had a good time in the past with a guy there, he had a hardon while massaging me. Was a good looker, young, hung and had no hangups and didn't want money! It's fairly well known that in this part of Egypt its somewhat more liberal, there are bars etc there, also a military base nearby with US and other nations, so pickups in the clubs is possible too. I like this place because its less busy as Cairo :)

[nhtj]

Go to Luxor, there you can meet the guys in their boats.

[xpat11]

not easy to find somebody....but you can ask for massage service

[herbertk]

Where do you ask for massage service? I will be in Egypt the first 2 weeks in October.

[Murat]

Him4. Where can you go in Qatar to meet men, I may be in Qatar in late October, I would like o know where to go.

[bistallion]

Hi together,
I have a question to people who live in egypt or know the country.
How risky you estimate the following procedure to come to some nice sexadventure with an egyptian man?
You rent an holiday appartement, lets say in Alexandria in an appartement house at the corniche. You go out and make contact with a nice and friendly young man (no gigolo/moneyboy but a "normal" one, for example a student who likes to practise his English). You go out with him, invite him for coffee or lunch to get out if he is liberal or conservative. If you still find that he is a nice guy you invite him to your appartement where you treat him like a guest. And at the right moment you ask him if he is curious to watch a (straight) porn dvd .... And if he likes to watch I am sure then it is easy to make him accept a good blow job. In each case I would always give him the feeling that he is a real man.
I think that is a rather riskiless way ... but perhaps I am too naive?
What do you think?

[levon]

hey there i am an Egyptian if u in Egypt or going to
send me a line

[windsor]

If anyone is thinking of travelling to Sharm-el-Sheik in the south (on the Red Sea), you won't have problems finding guys. There is a string of hotels adjacent to the beach. There are some massage stalls where local guys do massages for all sexes. I had a good time in the past with a guy there, he had a hardon while massaging me. Was a good looker, young, hung and had no hangups and didn't want money! It's fairly well known that in this part of Egypt its somewhat more liberal, there are bars etc there, also a military base nearby with US and other nations, so pickups in the clubs is possible too. I like this place because its less busy as Cairo :)

Does anyone know of any gay-friendly clubs or bars in Sharm-el-Sheik?

[timo0]

Hi together,
I have a question to people who live in egypt or know the country.
How risky you estimate the following procedure to come to some nice sexadventure with an egyptian man?
You rent an holiday appartement, lets say in Alexandria in an appartement house at the corniche. You go out and make contact with a nice and friendly young man (no gigolo/moneyboy but a "normal" one, for example a student who likes to practise his English). You go out with him, invite him for coffee or lunch to get out if he is liberal or conservative. If you still find that he is a nice guy you invite him to your appartement where you treat him like a guest. And at the right moment you ask him if he is curious to watch a (straight) porn dvd .... And if he likes to watch I am sure then it is easy to make him accept a good blow job. In each case I would always give him the feeling that he is a real man.
I think that is a rather riskiless way ... but perhaps I am too naive?
What do you think?


I think its a lot safer being a foreigner to try and pull that off...I think a straight man will not mind getting a blow job from a foreign man as long as he is sure that there are no strings attached and that there is no expectation that he has to return the favour :) I would just watch out for some guys who might try to nick something from your house...I once got a phone stolen from me (I am Egyptian by the way but only currently living in Spain)

[SCARAMOUCH]

Sellers at the Pyramid site will also cruise and approaach you. I am more used to Luxor and Aswan and have much hassle when it comes to being asked for sex. They think if you're gay you want it off any one and everyone. I have a selection of hot lads on tap and this is often the best way. Find one or two you really like and stick with them. Being frequent visitor helps as then that bond is strong

[yayaavo]

i would love to go there on day

hope i can find nice guys there

[SCARAMOUCH]

You can find nice guys there. Nice looking guys do not necessarily mean they are nice. By that I mean don't let your lust cloud your judgement. Follow these pieces of advice I now give to you. If you are in a Hotel you will probably have to go to boys to a place of their choosing. Follow your instince there. I suggest if this is your first time you do not go with a Felucca boy of a boy with a motorboat. They will take you out onto the Nile and so you will have to depend on them to get you back and they might ask for too much money before they do. Stay on land. You have every chance of enticing someone from the hotel to your room. If they have a flat so be it but it is advisable to just go with one. If he has a friend or if he is with others who say they just want to come and wait for him outside the bedroom be weary of this. If going to a flat just take what you need. Do not take valuables. If in Luxor do not go with Felucca boys from the Temple Feluccas. They are thieves and they also blab, meaning they tell everyone of the tourist they had sex with. This information can get to the Police. I have learned from my mistakes and so I can pass these onto you. I have never gone to someones flat and had anything stolen or been abused, only because I followed my instinct. I met a lad who was HOT HOT HOT. He took me to a friends flat. They wanted to join in. I told them no. They said they would wait on the Balcony. This made me nervous so I just up and left. I have no great regrets as I was to find hot guys who made me happier than they could have. Don't go during Ramadan. Gays and the Islamic time of abstenance do not mix even though there will be boys along the Cornich that do not let that stop them. If it is Cairo you are going to I recommend Khan El Khalili, old Cairo with its fantastic markets and if you're lucjy enough you'll find an Aladdins Cave. Lads wise, there are many who will approach you. If you are staying for a long time get a flat and if you do find one boy. The same rule applies, stick wih him. Don't let his friends come. One could keep you busy whilst the others are up to no good. I lost my mother to Cancer last year so I was emotionally vulnerable and I was taken advantage of. I am otherwise on the ball and you need to be when in Egypt.

[SCARAMOUCH]

Many questions have been asked of Egypt. Let me first give some well meaning pieces of advice. Egyptians whether in the Souks or sex are purely interested in money, although there are exceptions but I'm keeping them for myself. Be streetwise. Boys on boats may seem exciting but don't let your lust get the better of you. Boys on the Temple Feluccas, Luxor enjoy to blab and steal. Even the older captains warn against them. Things they speak of get to the Police. Egyptians are hot but some seem to think you just come to Egypt for the sex. Wherever you walk lads will approach you, even those underage. Avoid going on boats at night time. If they take you out onto the Nile they can be in control and dictate terms or they may take you to a beach where others may await you. Everyone wants sex and I am sure this sort of situation may seem good for some, however it is advisable to find the one you like and trust. A Policeman had told me a special friend is best. It will look better in the eyes of the locals also as to be seen with many boys will put you in a bad light and have you marked as Gay. Do not stop to talk to everyone who says hello to you. As friendly as this appears, people will ask "Why does he go with many boys?" When lads ask for sex and you say no and they don't like this they will shout abuse. They will even shout out "You're Gay!" You see the way it works in Egypt is if you are bottom you are gay if they all man. There are unscrupulous people in Egypt. I know of many in Aswan. I dress as I do to please myself. He complains that I look gay. He asks that I bring a girl for him for sex. He does sex with boys, Egyptians. He has readily admitted to doing sex with a 14yr old boy. He says if he not have a girl he does sex with a boy, even an underage boy. I have learned many lessons. I have much experience to share. I will be sure to post more of these and some more positive experiences as I have had many. I love Egypt and this is a love that should never be marred. You just have to understand the people and know how to deal with them and stay on top of things.

[kosta]

hello..need to ask you a question if you can help?...I also love Egypt,the culture and the men....I am a greek guy...and thinking of going to Cairo for about 6 weeks maybe more in Jan 2009...you had mentioned in one of your articlas about renting an apt...think its a great idea...do you happen to know of one that i might be able to rent or if not were dose one look ? looking for a small one bedroom furnished apt short term 6 to 8 weeks and not expensive...can you please help or advise me ...thank you Kosta

[abnight]

Do anyone have gay experience in Nile River Cruse?

[SCARAMOUCH]

Hi Kostas. Leave this with me. I have a friend in Luxor with a flat in Cairo on Pyramid street. I'm also in contact with people in Cairo. It's brave of you to spend so much time in Cairo although in all fairness it is less hassle than Luxor and Aswan. A flat is best as then you can entertain privately. For 6weeks you will probably be looking at around 2500E-3000E for a flat in Cairo. Cairo tends to be more expensive. I shall call friends and contacts later so I'm on it for you. Otherwise you could start by looking through THE ROUGH GUIDE. Flats can also be found on the Net.

[SCARAMOUCH]

I had a flat in Aswan, old and full of character and in a quiet location. I had happy times there. When in Luxor it is often your best deal to get a flat on the East Bank as flats on the West Bank tend to be more expensive. If you do get a flat on the West Bank it is advisable when bringing a friend back to make use of the motorboats to ferry you across as then you avoid too much attention and gossip. I had a flat in Fayrouz Luxor. A friend told me I was a fool to do so as the Police patrol this area. This I had found not to be the case. The last flat I had been in was in the Medina area of Luxor and I had found there to be more Police there and far too many people taking note of my comings and goings comments often been thrown at me little was I aware of there being a Mosque just a few doors away. This was a single incident. After this I had no problem except when bumping into someone I knew who chose to pry into my business. In comparison the Flat in Fayrouz was the quieter and more discrete. One thing I did learn from getting the flat in Aswan and Fayrouz is it is never best to ask people you know too well to help you find these things. As well as being on commission which is the way of the Egyptian, often they never leave you alone. They feel the flat is as much for them. This was the experience more in Aswan than Luxor. The only problem with the Flat in Fayrouz is once the Landlord had left with his money my friend pounces on me wanting sex. I had actually acquired the flat for me and my Egyptian BF so I was very angry with him. Another problem that arose is that his friend who I later learned was in the habbit of supplying an American with boys on tap turns to me as we sat in a Cafe and declared that my friends want him to take them to McDonalds and Discos. I saw red. I took them aware from Aswan because of unscrupulous men seeking to benefit from my association with them. I saw red and went at him making everyone in the Cafe look at him and I embarassed him. He was basically out to benefit financially. I was going to say "Go on then so long as you're willing to pay." Would he like hell. The Flat in Fayrouz dispite not having a washing machine was well decorated and large with two bathrooms and two bedrooms, a nice English style kitchen and there was a laundrette just next door and a pharmacy opposite. The main road was a quiet walk away and there were not too many people clocking your presence. I found it to be nice to walk from there up to Television street as I did when my friend returned to Aswan for his second Eide. I was actually there for my Christmas although I enjoyed their eide more. So many people and much festivity.

[saltyshakes]

You're quite right about being careful Scaramouche. I met someone in Luxor, went back to his flat &, after we'd had sex, he turned nasty, demanded money, locking the door so I couldn't leave, finally threatening to hit me with a bottle! I ended up having to give him the little I had with me that day - about 70 LE & was glad to get away.

The next day he strolls up to me in a jovial fashion [with his catch phrase 'You walk like an Egyptian'], in the street, & was surprised when I didn't want to chat with him! He shrugged his shoulders, saying he needed the money for a new SIM card &, if I was going to be unfriendly, he wouldn't talk to me any more!

The cheek of some people there is breathtaking.

[saltyshakes]

I've been on a couple of these - the first being my first package holiday ever was a shock to the system so, on the second one, I ignored the organised visits & did my own thing.

Regarding liaisons - the generally all male cleaning staff are your best bet though my experience on the first cruise wasn't so good, having given the head cleaner [nothing special] a blow job, he demanded money.

The second cruise was better - I had regular meets in my cabin with a cute cleaner who didn't ask for a penny. Consequently, I was more than happy to be generous with my tip at the end of the week.

Generally, as always, be discreet - communicate with the eyes, a smile perhaps or a subtle gay handshake [see my previous postings].

[SCARAMOUCH]

It's worth knowing about the Gay handshake. The situation with cleaning staff can also apply to Hotels. Be careful of Police entrapment. I had often been approached by Policemen. One time I was with a young friend and a Policeman said he would lock him away in Jail if he didn't get me to go with him to a Hotel and do sex. What did I do? I ran and jumped into a taxi. I told the taxi driver my destination but he wished to take me off to his place. I insisted on going to the Station. When it was obvious I wasn't getting to the station I whacked the driver and thinking he would stop I jumped out. I only go and jump out of a moving car. Another Policeman that I came to know also asked for sex and then so did another. I am sure they would score points if they were to entrap a tourist. My first time in Luxor a Policeman had given me the handshake.

[SCARAMOUCH]

You're dammed if you do and you're dammed if you don't. You will get adverse reactions from people when you turn down their advances. Egyptian boys tend to make great boasts. These are 1-I'm Nubian, implying that they are well-hung. 2-I'll make you cry, implying they are so big you'll be begging for mercy. 3-I'm strong which actionally means they are well hard down there. One boy boasted he would go for three hours. I think he managed three minutes. They also say they would be the best sex you ever have. If I was to score Luxor and Aswan, Aswan wins.

[SCARAMOUCH]

If an Egyptian boy says to you, TOPs. He isn't just implying his sexual role. Tops in Egypt is a brand of Condom. So if a boy asks if you have Tops he is asking for Condoms. If you go to the GAYEGYPT.COM you can learn a lot of sexual arabic terms. There is however one work that works whatever your lingo, that's right "FUCK" Moss is suck. Boosni is Kiss. Eglib Nabsak is turn over. Arabic men do not always enjoy having their bum touched. If they know you well enough then fine. The usual reply is "No. I'm muslim." My first time in Luxor, being free with my hands I touched a boy on the arse outside Luxor Temple. He soon put me straight on that. Straight! Most of the guys looking for sex are straight. In the summer months many of these boys are to be found on the Corniche. I advise you do not frequent the Corniche too much. The Police know what goes on there. If you go there too much they will clock YOU.

[Murat]

I can't speak for others reading the most recent posts but you all come over as serial sexual predators, Eqyptians men have no other function that to satisfy your sexual desires/fantasies. You don't appear to have any respect for them. Pervading every post is the underlying message that you as (affluent, educated westerners) somehow better that the Eygptians you meet and they should be thankful for you having sex with them. the cheek of it they actually want to be paid! You really have no idea that modern educated gay arabs despise westerners who visit their countries basically for cheap sex. Look at ther countrymen as inferiors An Arab friend, reading these posts remarked that yo nee reminding that Brtain does not hve an empire any more, yo are notvisting a colony, the natives simply don't do what they are told any more !You can imagine the outcry if it were weathly arabs going to the poorer parts of say Newcastle on the hunt for men willing to have sex for next to nothing because they are poor. You expresssed shock that a man has sex with you and then threatened you and demanded money. You are shocked thst when you next met him he told you it was all because he needed a sim card. What did you expect, love! Then you refer to a guy on the boat, he was nice so you were generous with your tip.How much extra did you give? an extra pound, maybe two? That says everything I need to know about your attitude to arabs and Eygptians in particular, If you want to be sex tourist ok fine but dont expect the locals to thank you for it. You have no real repect for Eygptians so why should they treat you as if you are worthy of it. This website has many members who want a genuine loving relationship with an Arab. That shows respect. Nowhere should gays be beaten up robbed or threatened but to be honest given your attitude towards the men you meet I do find it hard to care.

[ahmed fadel]

i am willing to try the places him4 suggested (thanks him4 :)) but are they like places for gays only, or you can find them? and how do i approach someone?

[traveller99]

Hi, what are the chances of meeting guys who are not after you for your wallet in Cairo?

[LApersboy]

Hi, what are the chances of meeting guys who are not after you for your wallet in Cairo?

i had good luck with this, but i think maybe part of it is that i look egyptian. no matter, i never had anyone who only wanted money come to or with me. the boys and men who chase you are those who want money from my experience. i would often sit on the bridge across the nile by meidan tahrir and watch the boys go by, ignoring the one who were obviously prostitutes and looking for those who acted more subtly. these were never prostitutes, but merely men looking for other men like me.
otherwise, i frequented normal egyptian shisha cafes where i the waiters were cute, and after a few weeks we became friends, and after that we became a bit more. once one asked me for money, but because it was not a random thing- we knew eachother as friends for a few weeks, and we had become a bit close- i got mad at him and he relented quickly, not asking for any money. he says he used to wander the streets late at night in mohandiseen fro foreigners who would pay him, for those who are interested.

some beautiful, seductive boys... but learn some arabic and don't be desperate, it helps a lot

[1thatseeks]

i was curious to know of the older guys do cruising too or is it just the younger guys? where could i find older guys( +30) that would be interested? whats that handshake by the way? i never heard of it before. I would very much like to be friends( and have sex later if possible) instead of picking up guys for quickies... I want an older guy i can lay up with and have sex.... :)

[Josafat_01]

Nice Baby (h)

[1thatseeks]

lol thanks Josafat...its just that,all i heard on this thread was guys chasing the younger ones( guess my age). I like the hairier, older more mature men. a little chubbiness is fine too. those twinks dont have a chance against such piece of man..lol

wish i knew how to get to know the older ones..though :(
would really enjoy the company and friendship

what about you?
what do you like?

[saltyshakes]

Whilst some men undoubtedly do travel to Egypt as sex tourists & women too - amongst travel operators Luxor is recognised as a top sex destination for older women! However, regarding myself, whilst being attracted to Arab men, I'm also interested in local culture and have been trying to learn Arabic for some time.

Regarding the 'predator' notion, this is an an abusive, unjustified generalisation & actually the reverse might be more appropriate as single male visitors are routinely pounced upon by locals with inappropriately intrusive questions relating to where they are staying, whether they are married, before plunging into 'banana land' with, usually unwanted offers of sex. My visit in November last year to Luxor was focussed on learning more Arabic & practising when I could but it was very difficult. The first teacher I had arranged lessons with proved to have misrepresented his teaching abilities [he was an English teacher] but I was lucky enough to eventually meet another who was much better. Although his English wasn't so good I received welcome help from another student [a straight Czech guy] who worked there [in the travel business]. Incidentally, although he is able to understand & speak Arabic reasonably well, he had decided not to reveal this generally as, listening to colleagues obsessed with money & crude sexual stories, he felt conversations with them would hold no interest to him. It was so hard to find local people interested in simple [non-sexual] conversation. I gathered from one Egyptian non-local that the people of Luxor are regarded as being 'difficult' - the phrase used was 'money-dogs', although my second teacher, from outside of Luxor [& straight like the first] was shocked at how badly the locals behaved towards him!

Wherever I go, at home or abroad, my interest is in getting to know people as people, eye-to-eye. Visiting a country where people are generally poor obviously presents its dilemmas. Where there has been the opportunity to be generous without being patronising with someone who has become a friend, I have done so & none of that has been connected with sexual contact. As a single gay man I might be open to a sexual encounter or 'holiday romance' but would prefer that to arise out of a developing friendship with someone [around my own age] though, in the absence of that, have in the past taken up some casual offers as one might do cruising in the UK. The negative experiences I've had, and related here [as cautionary tales], have made me much more cautious & generally less interested. Personally, I would reject utterly that my approach has been 'predatory' and so justify any violence, demands & threats, though I concede that, personally, I've felt that the comments of some heading for Arab countries in search of sex 'objects', in the absence of any interest in the men as people, have appeared to me as rather 'predatory'. I always treat people with respect & dignity as human beings. We are all fallible & have our shortcomings, weaknesses etc but poverty doesn't justify antisocial extremes of behaviour. My straight Czech friend has also worked in Thailand where people are also very poor but discovered genuine warmth shown by people he met there, unlike in Luxor.

I would not recommend Luxor as a destination except for its relative affordability. A friend spent twice as much studying Arabic for 2wks in Damascus [which sounds like a much more welcoming place!] than I did in a month in Luxor - perhaps, you get what you pay for! Having barely been able to afford the latter, the former is, unfortunately, not an option so I'm looking again at options for studying in London.

On reflection, I suppose on my last visit I did become somewhat 'predatory' as, after 2-3wks of being hassled when I sat in cafés, with intrusive questions & unwanted offers - in English, I realised I could 'take advantage' of these occasions to practice the Arabic [fus-ha & ammia] that I had learnt, ignoring the 'offers', steering the conversation in other directions. Unfortunately but, perhaps, unsurprisingly, friendships didn't develop from this, the locals having realised I wasn't up for what they were wanting to sell, usually soon became bored & left!

So Murat, whilst I might have some sympathies about your feelings [one reason that I rarely visit this site nowadays], you should take a little more care with your postings rather than jumping to unjustified conclusions with such a scatter-gun approach.

[Murat]

My conclusions are not unjustified, nor to they come out of the blue. They come out speaking with Eyqptian friends who live in London and my own experiences as a Turk. I accept that Luxor is not the best place in Eygpt to meet me who are interested in friendship rather than sex. Many Eyqptians would probably agree with your discrption of the place. What you have to ask is how did they gey like that and the answer lies in some of the posts in this website. Many white western men travel to the place with one object and one object only to screw as many men as cheaply as possible. Of course there are exceptions to these travelers, from what you say you are one, (I wish there were more of you!) but a fewe exceptions do not defeat a genralisation. There is a perception amongst gay white men that they are some how superior to arabs. Read Joe Orton's diaries and you will get the picture. It goes back many years. Treat people with respect and they will respect you. How much respect do you find in parts of this website? Like you I don't visit very much now.

[saltyshakes]

As I said, I do sympathise with some of your comments but one should see things in context. YES, in common with most gay web sites, bars, clubs etc gay men, perhaps most men, tend to objectify. YES, sex tourism male & female does exist - did you see the recent 'Sex hunters' documentary about older women travelling to Turkey? Also there is the hypocrisy that exists in Arab countries - what is illegal - what is seen as immoral - what people say they do & what they actually do plus, as you say, a prevalent cultural ignorance that feeds attitudes of superiority. I'm well aware of the profound shortcomings of gay culture in the developed world as much as I am of the freedoms we enjoy in comparison to those in other countries, also of the importance of family so many westerners are at best naïve about what coming out means for those with a muslim background even if they live in the UK.

If one is looking for a partner, one could be considered to be 'hunting' so 'predatory' however, in the pejorative sense, 'predatory' implies a sense of manipulation of power on behalf of the predator & disregard for the humanity of the 'prey'. You are right in observing that this is something that goes way back [certainly beyond Orton] with respect to visitors to Arab countries however it also goes way back with respect to the behaviour accorded to visitors - perhaps taking us into the biblical territory of Sodom & Gomorrah! It also applies to any interaction, trading etc rather than only to sex. I'm not interested in paying for sex but concede there are those that are &, I guess if the participants are honest about the transaction, it's not too awful.

Those that have gone before, behaved dishonourably, unethically will obviously be responsible to a degree for what transpires now but it is naïve to suggest that this is from only one side of any cultural divide. Mass tourism certainly exacerbates this so that extremes arise. Luxor, for example, is one such place where, as a visitor, unless one retreats to the new enclaves of the modern hotels one is subjected to a sometimes minute to minute barrage of this. If I travel anywhere, including Europe, I enjoy soaking up cultural differences so am drawn to cafes rather than museums, to get to know local people as fellow human beings. This used to be possible in Aswan, for example, but now that is heading the way of Luxor.

I take no joy in recounting my experiences of inhospitality, rather it grieves me that the course that people have taken in these places - from municipal decisions to demolish old Souks & parks, replacing them with aseptic precincts/malls to local peoples invasive approaches as, aside from making the experience of the visitor at best wearing, at worst threatening, it is also 'shooting themselves in the foot' perhaps gaining a small amount of quick money but losing the opportunity to make greater amounts of slow money based on trust [& selling things visitors might WANT to buy] - it discourages human interaction, fuelling the trend towards enclave resorts & laws about contact between visitors & locals.

I had thought that, spending a month there, I might find more genuine people but really I had little success, the people I got to know better being a Czech resident & an older German woman [married to a young Egyptian]. Trying to form friendships with locals as successful Canute trying to stop the tide from coming in! It's no surprise that many gay men get drawn into this as it appears to be all that is on offer and approaches are unceasing. Just as it means enclave hotels become successful at the expense of small local ones, it also means that the wealthy sex tourist is likely to have a more 'fruitful' time than any other. It also leads to disparaging attitudes developing in visitors towards locals & fuels prejudice.

I suppose that what disappointed me the most was, being so pervasive [including 'educated' people & non-sexual interactions] how it undermined my belief in the positive aspects of human nature regardless of cultural barriers. As a postscript, regarding meeting Arab men in London, the overwhelming majority [though not all], seem to reject the possibility of developing a, perhaps discreet [appreciating peer pressure etc], friendship in favour of a 'fuck & go' approach - which poses the question: who is preying on whom? Rather than directing blame to just one group, you should recognise the collusion of desire on both sides & recognise that when it comes to disrespect, selfishness, arrogance, manipulation etc they are also things that can arise from either side of a cultural divide.

[nakhoncon]

i dont have friend in ciro but want to go

[ButtyBoy]

i dont have friend in ciro but want to go

So why don't you? I wanna go to Cairo again too